tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4307187040250193857.post4163655249090975243..comments2024-03-20T03:33:22.357-07:00Comments on Skeptophilia: No science, no vote.Gordon Bonnethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06003472005971594466noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4307187040250193857.post-42857399051018040932015-09-19T06:26:18.082-07:002015-09-19T06:26:18.082-07:00fair enough. On the Trump issue, here is an assess...fair enough. On the Trump issue, here is an <a href="http://pos.org/2015/09/republican-incumbents-beware-theres-something-happening-here-what-it-is-aint-exactly-clear" rel="nofollow">assessment</a> of why "his message is ringing true." I'm not sure it's about Trump per se, seeing as how Bernie Sanders is benefiting from some of the same political dynamics. Anyway, I think I can guarantee with almost 100% certainty that you will never see a Trump presidency. I'm more confident of that than I am about a lot of things.Jim Tantillohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12520467623399679472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4307187040250193857.post-30379530003861661692015-09-18T14:00:40.061-07:002015-09-18T14:00:40.061-07:00I saw this when you posted it earlier -- the idea ...I saw this when you posted it earlier -- the idea that science itself can sometimes be corrupt, for whatever reason, is deeply troubling to me. I would love to learn more about this; maybe we can discuss it over a beer some time? Because the truth of the matter is, I am neither an academic nor a research scientist, and anything I could add to what was already said in the letter (pro or con) would be the empty meanderings of an ill-informed outside observer, and therefore not worth much.<br /><br />However, I disagree with you over combatting the nonsense from people like Trump being "a waste of time and energy." I wish I believed, as you do, that he's unelectable. The fact that he has gotten as far as he has in the polls is also a troubling phenomenon -- because it means that for a significant slice of America, his message is ringing true.<br /><br />Happy to discuss this further with you -- perhaps if I can find out more about your perspective on the issues raised in the letter, I'll learn enough to write about it.<br /><br />respectfully...<br /><br />GordonGordon Bonnethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06003472005971594466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4307187040250193857.post-84201746112207983922015-09-18T05:53:36.082-07:002015-09-18T05:53:36.082-07:00(2 of 2)
letter continues:
The methods of these o...(2 of 2)<br />letter continues:<br /><br /><i>The methods of these organizations are quite similar to those used earlier by the tobacco industry. A RICO investigation (1999 to 2006) played an important role in stopping the tobacco industry from continuing to deceive the American people about the dangers of smoking. If corporations in the fossil fuel industry and their supporters are guilty of the misdeeds that have been documented in books and journal articles, it is imperative that these misdeeds be stopped as soon as possible so that America and the world can get on with the critically important business of finding effective ways to restabilize the Earth’s climate, before even more lasting damage is done.<br /><br />Sincerely,<br /><br />Jagadish Shukla, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA<br />Edward Maibach, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA<br />Paul Dirmeyer, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA<br />Barry Klinger, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA<br />Paul Schopf, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA<br />David Straus, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA<br />Edward Sarachik, University of Washington, Seattle, WA<br />Michael Wallace, University of Washington, Seattle, WA<br />Alan Robock, Rutgers University, New Brunswick, NJ<br />Eugenia Kalnay, University of Maryland, College Park, MD<br />William Lau, University of Maryland, College Park, MD<br />Kevin Trenberth, National Center for Atmospheric Research, Boulder, CO<br />T.N. Krishnamurti, Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL<br />Vasu Misra, Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL<br />Ben Kirtman, University of Miami, Miami, FL<br />Robert Dickinson, University of Texas, Austin, TX<br />Michela Biasutti, Earth Institute, Columbia University, New York, NY<br />Mark Cane, Columbia University, New York, NY<br />Lisa Goddard, Earth Institute, Columbia University, New York, NY<br />Alan Betts, Atmospheric Research, Pittsford, VT</i><br /><br />Georgia Tech climate scientist Judy Curry <a href="javascript:void(0);" rel="nofollow">writes in response</a>: “What you have done with your letter is the worst kind of irresponsible advocacy, which is to attempt to silence scientists that disagree with you by invoking RICO. It is bad enough that politicians such as Whitehouse and Grijalvi are playing this sort of political game with science and scientists, but I regard it as highly unethical for scientists to support defeating scientists with whom you disagree by such methods. Since I was one of the scientists called out in Grijalvi’s witch hunts, I can only infer that I am one of the scientists you are seeking to silence.”<br /><br />Roger Pielke Jr., a political scientist at Colorado who has been(unfairly, in my view) labeled a climate “denier,” <a href="https://twitter.com/RogerPielkeJr/status/644578705612763136" rel="nofollow">observes</a>: “As one (wrongly) investigated by Congress for my unacceptable research, criminalizing dissent is anti-democratic & contra scientific norms.”<br /><br />Gordon, as you say, science is a process. It helps us tell “fact from fiction, good ideas from bad ones, solid theory from folly and superstition.” But in my view, scientists acting badly is a far more serious issue than a bunch of half-witted politicians pandering to the camera for screen time. <br /><br />To paraphrase your conclusion, it is time for scientists to treat a baseline knowledge of science, and a respect for scientific research, as a sine qua non for doing science. The signatories to this letter just catapulted themselves right out of the running.<br /><br />Jim Tantillohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12520467623399679472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4307187040250193857.post-86801345231193406482015-09-18T05:49:00.772-07:002015-09-18T05:49:00.772-07:00(1 of 2) Gordon, while I agree with everything you...(1 of 2) Gordon, while I agree with everything you say here, I think you waste time and energy talking about a bunch of morons, none of whom will ever be President.<br /><br />The greater threat to science is more insidious, and it comes from within science itself. I would love to see you write about the following letter signed by 20 scientists calling for the RICO investigation of dissenting scientists. I’ll include the full letter here:<br /><br /><i>Letter to President Obama, Attorney General Lynch, and OSTP Director Holdren<br /><br />September 1, 2015<br /><br />Dear President Obama, Attorney General Lynch, and OSTP Director Holdren,<br /><br />As you know, an overwhelming majority of climate scientists are convinced about the potentially serious adverse effects of human-induced climate change on human health, agriculture, and biodiversity. We applaud your efforts to regulate emissions and the other steps you are taking. Nonetheless, as climate scientists we are exceedingly concerned that America’s response to climate change – indeed, the world’s response to climate change – is insufficient. The risks posed by climate change, including increasing extreme weather events, rising sea levels, and increasing ocean acidity – and potential strategies for addressing them – are detailed in the Third National Climate Assessment (2014), Climate Change Impacts in the United States. The stability of the Earth’s climate over the past ten thousand years contributed to the growth of agriculture and therefore, a thriving human civilization. We are now at high risk of seriously destabilizing the Earth’s climate and irreparably harming people around the world, especially the world’s poorest people.<br /><br />We appreciate that you are making aggressive and imaginative use of the limited tools available to you in the face of a recalcitrant Congress. One additional tool – recently proposed by Senator Sheldon Whitehouse – is a RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) investigation of corporations and other organizations that have knowingly deceived the American people about the risks of climate change, as a means to forestall America’s response to climate change. The actions of these organizations have been extensively documented in peerreviewed academic research (Brulle, 2013) and in recent books including: Doubt is their Product (Michaels, 2008), Climate Cover-Up (Hoggan & Littlemore, 2009), Merchants of Doubt (Oreskes & Conway, 2010), The Climate War (Pooley, 2010), and in The Climate Deception Dossiers (Union of Concerned Scientists, 2015). We strongly endorse Senator Whitehouse’s call for a RICO investigation.</i><br />Jim Tantillohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12520467623399679472noreply@blogger.com